"Ashcan" Pete

"Ashcan" Pete

I need some piloting tips for Ashcan. I played this deck in Return to Dunwich Legacy, on Standard. arkhamdb.com

I stopped playing after the WORST Miskatonic Museum experience I ever had. Duke could barely discover a clue because I kept pulling -3 and -4 tokens. When he managed to succeed, Ashcan needs to discard cards to try investigating again. Duke only gets 1 clue per Investigate.
When the Hunting Horror appeared, Duke's fight of 4 is not good enough.
It takes multiple rounds (6-10) to get Well Connected to give you a minimum +2 bonus, presuming you draw your Investments in your opening hand. After a few rounds, the skills in your hand are used up and you've got nearly no stat boosting effect.

Specifically about Ashcan Pete....
Even on Standard, a 4 investigate and a 4 fight does not good seem enough to get the core tasks of a scenario completed. The first 2 Dunwich scenarios went mostly well, and that's because he mostly drew 0 and -1 tokens. The general consensus in the community seems to be that testing at +2 on Standard is suggested. I disagree; my experience has shown that testing at -3 is significantly better. On Standard, you have one -3, one -4, auto-fail, and usually 1 BS token that is worth -3. That's 22-26% failure rating. Still too high for my liking.

So, is Dark Horse Pete the only way to play this investigator? The decks I tend to play have a commonality: play permanent boosts to get key stat(s) at 6, and then use cards that provide action compression and more boost. Ex: Beat Cop + Ace of Swords + .45 Automatic = fighting at 7-8 test value with +1 damage.

I must be missing something with Ashcan, because the consensus seems to support Tsuruki23's review on this page. He's beloved by many, and I cannot see why after playing a few scenarios with him. Your feedback is appreciated! :)

VanyelAshke · 181
It would be easier to divulge into if you posted your deck, but essentially you should never be relying on just a value of 4 to pass anything on standard. You should be committing or stacking. Magnifying Glass and Fieldwork (both of which enhance Duke's investigates) are common takes with Pete, but there's also simple skills like Perception and Overpower that I still run with him since he is so card hungry. You're also a Survivor, so at worse you move and fail an investigate, which ideally you can recover some of that opp cost with Rabbit's Foot. Fights you should never be entirely dependent on Duke to cover for you, you need another weapon just in case Duke fails or you need a second (or third) hit. Fire Axe is a typical go to because most of Ashcan's cards require very few resources to play- Fire Axe, Glimmer of Hope, Live and Learn, even Madame Labranche. None of that requires you run Dark Horse, and realistically Dark Horse itself is the least important card to make that deck work (Labranche is the most important). You could also opt for Meat Cleaver (with some boosts, like the Desperate skills) or even take advantage of his willpower and use Shrivelling. — StyxTBeuford · 13043
I can see you went with an Investments and Well Connected type of deck, which is not I don't think a good way to play him now that Faustian Bargain exists. The Investments interaction is really dubious anyway, as you're discarding a card to gain a resource, which is odd. — StyxTBeuford · 13043
I apologize by the way as you did post your deck, I just didn't notice that was a link at first. — StyxTBeuford · 13043
The deck's at the beginning of the post, I think. From what I can see , it's built around emptying investments as fast as you can in order to set-up using Pete's ability on Well-Connected twice/turn. The rest of it is Labrance , Meat Cleaver, Rabbit's Foot and various skills and events that you mention, plus the Improvised cards and some other things that don't mind being discarded. My instinct is that the Investments/ Well-Connected/ Pete's ability combo is the absolute core of the deck and you need to be absolutely focused on making that happen as fast as possible. Testing 2x/round at +4 seems a lot more achievable. Then you've got Winging It + Perception to keep making progress on low shroud locations , Improvised Weapon for little enemies, Glimmer of Hope, Live and learn, various misc skills for makeshift boosts while you assemble the combo and Labranche/Take Heart/Rabbit Foot to actually assemble it. But it's very very much a deck built around a specific group of cards, and I think you want to be prioritising that above all else. It does make me think Dunwich Legacy's a fairly harsh campaign for this deck tho. Losing combo pieces to the constant milling would be painful... — bee123 · 31
Thank you for the quick feedback! Yes, Dunwich's milling occasionally hurt when it hit core pieces. This deck has over 100 likes, so I thought I'd give it a try because I assumed it meant people have had good success with it. It does seem that this particular deck is quite combo-oriented, which requires a familiarity with the core plan. As a Magic:the Gathering player, I tend to avoid combo decks. I play Burn and linear "get the job quickly, efficiently, and as linearly as possible". Haha. I suspect this was a poor deck choice on my part, based on not knowing how to pilot it effectively. — VanyelAshke · 181
Regarding Ashcan specifically as an investigator, I recognize that it's important to boost Duke's investigation and fighting capacities. Magnifying Glass is a good card, yes. I guess Jessica Hyde to boost combat. The Survivor card pool doesn't seem to have as many permanent boosts or high-value items. Guardians get Beat Cop, Ace of Swords, Alice Luxley. Seekers get Mag Glass, Fingerprint Kits, Dr Milan, Death tarot. Each faction has a relevant Tarot to boost their significant stat, and items/allies that give permanent boosts. Survivors seem to have less of those. — VanyelAshke · 181
Yeahhhh, one of the big survivor gimmicks is around benefitting from failing tests and that obviously doesn't lend itself very well to permanent consistent boosts. So where they exist in the survivor pool, like say, Cornered , they do tend to be odder. That trick can be extended in some quite clever and powerful ways. Thinking for instance of Look What I Found in the Core Set, on a shroud 2 or lower location, you're sure to either succeed or to be able to play Look What I Found because you can't fail a difficulty 2 test by >2. And that's only scratching the surface , lol. Stella Clark is most built to function around fail-to-win, so if you're interested to how far the suite of fail-to-win cards can be pushed it might be worth looking at some Stella decks. For Pete in this deck tho, there's one fail-to-win card that's interesting and that's Drawing Thin. Did you consider spending xp on that? — bee123 · 31
Thank you StyxTBeuford for the breakdown on card selection in an Ashcan deck. Looking through a bunch of decks on ArkhamDB, the cards you listed are indeed in pretty much every Ashcan deck. Seems that the Fire Axe/Labranche/Dark Horse deck is almost unanimous as the most popular way to play (i.e. "best" way...?). There are some Yoatl skills decks, but there's less of those. Seems like Ashcan tends to run the same cards. — VanyelAshke · 181
Thanks bee123. Seems that Survivors are a faction that require a shift in perspective/play style. I do see that they have some neat design space; the fail-to-win concept is fascinating and sounds fun! Just may not be my personal playstyle. I compare decks to martial arts styles, in real life. Sure, you can learn 10 different martial art styles (decks). But you have personal strengths that make certain martial art styles (decks) intuitive and fitting your approach. :) Survivors are cool; they just may not be my style. Yorrick was a blast to play. Fairly straight forward; fight, recur items, repeat. — VanyelAshke · 181
You could do Drawing Thin, Rabbit's Foot, Take Heart, and Track Shoes- use that for draw to enable Pete's ability and Cornered if you want a boost. — StyxTBeuford · 13043
Is Drawing Thin worth the 6xp from Taboo? — VanyelAshke · 181
100% if you can't take rogue cards. — MrGoldbee · 1483
I like Mag Glass, Flashlight and Shovel in a Pete deck and then add either Jessica Hyde or Guiding Spirit (or both with Charisma) because taking a test at 4 is pretty risky. After that fill the deck with skill cards and Lucky/LiveLearn/LookWhatIFound. With all of those skill cards I like Grisly Totem but you probably want Relic Hunter so you can also take the Rabbit's Foot or the Teddy Bear. — The Lynx · 987
It’s worth noting that Legacy is actually the worst campaign of any released for Pete. — MrGoldbee · 1483
Also for future reference, I wouldnt ask for deckbuilding advice here. It’s not an efficient place to talk about it. Try the reddit or the Mythos Buster’s discord instead. — StyxTBeuford · 13043
Ok. I'll ask around to find someone who can teach me how to use reddit. Is there a specific page, or group...? Sorry for my lack of knowledge. I use Google and Facebook, and even Facebook confuses me sometimes. haha. Thanks. — VanyelAshke · 181
Why does everyone like putting allies in this deck? He doesn't have a spare ally slot without Charisma, does he? — qbeam2 · 1

Raise the Stakes

Raise the Stakes

One of the O'Bannions approaches you...

"Want to play a game?" he says with a sinister grin.

You see through his ploys; this is a game you cannot win. You consider your options:

  • Accept the game, but cheat: you'll win the game, keep your money, but they'll know...
  • Accept the game, play by their rules: you'll lose, they keep your money, but will leave you alone for now...
  • Reject their offer: the O'Bannions won't like that you rejected their "generous" offer, and start wondering why you're even here. Their men will be ready to "kick you out"...
Nenananas · 267
Often best to keep $ low btwn turns and pick #2. — MrGoldbee · 1483
Real talk 2 and 3 are the only options; the universe will punish you heavily for cheating. — SGPrometheus · 829
@MrGoldbee My understanding is that if you do not have 5 resources you cannot pick that option. — Time4Tiddy · 247
NM - I see that's been clarified below, and wow we've been playing this much harder than we have to. — Time4Tiddy · 247
Thanks on the nice words on "Hypnotic Gaze". Really liked that one as well. — Susumu · 381

Winifred Habbamock

Winifred Habbamock

For those asking "what core investigator role is Winifred best suited for: Fighter or Cluever?", it appears that she is capable of being built as either one. Similar to Jenny Barnes and Finn Edwards, the Rogue card pool can make Wini into a Cluever (Lockpicks, Lola Santiago) or into a Fighter.

As a Fighter, she can be built in two different ways:

Option 1 - Agility. Built similarly to Finn's fighting style, trying to leverage her Agility (Ornate Bow, Sneak Attack, Backstab).

Option 1 - Strength. Now with Lonnie Ritter and Delilah O'Rourke as part of the card pool, Wini could be a gun-wielding Fighter as well due to these allies bringing Wini's Strength to 5.

Sharpshooter is an interesting card that helps either of these two combat options. Wini now gets to attack using her Agility score instead (which would be 5, instead of attacking at 3 Strength).
Added to Option 1, any Agility boosters would make this even better (The Moon • XVIII, Lola Santiago, Cat Burglar).

If added to Option 2, with Lonnie and Delilah, then Wini would be at a base of 6 Agility, and attacking using that rather than her base Strength of 5. Sharpshooter would also give a +2 bonus from the two Strength boosts that each ally provides. So Wini would be shooting a gun with a combat skill of 8, plus the bonus from the weapon she is using. Pretty good! Checkout my review of Sharpshooter if you'd like to unpack the topic more.


So, what role is Winifred best suited for? I'm going to vote Fighter.
Fighting usually requires high skill tests, and you are rewarded more for over-committing to these tests than compared to clue gathering. Also, a lot of the Rogue weapons reward you for over-succeeding, so you might as well play Wini this way. Otherwise, why are you playing an over-succeed investigator? What's the payoff?

What do you think? Is Wini's "optimal" build to be a Fighter, or a Cluever?
Feel free to share details about strategies and cards that help bolster her "optimal" role.

VanyelAshke · 181
She's flex! — MrGoldbee · 1483
I think she is a cluegetter that packs a big punch with the Mauser (and then an upgrade), Lonnie/Delilah and Sharpshooter. She can still have one Lockpicks in the other hand and then some of the clue event cards. — The Lynx · 987
I used her in a 3p game as a cluever. She and Chuck scooped up clues with ease using Pilfer (3). Sometimes she helps out in support by doing a Sneak Attack (2) at the breakneck (haha) speed with her pal Chuck. — toastsushi · 74
She's a great flex gator, meaning she does fighting and clue getting well. She draws fast enough and has such great economy, and she's able to overcommit with significantly less opportunity cost, that her stats actually go much further than you'd think. Those 3's ast more like 4's or 5's in a normal gator since you're always committing 2 cards instead of 1. — StyxTBeuford · 13043
Wini is absolutely a generalist. Note that Lockpicks and Mauser both exhaust (though Mauser can ready itself on an oversuccess), which points her, like many Rogues, toward trying to use both each turn whenever possible. Sharpshooter, in her set, amplifies this by making both her investigates (with lockpicks) and her attacks add Agility, so load up her deck with the powerful Agility and Wild Rogue skills. — Thatwasademo · 58
(er, to clarify, you can't use Agility skills on Lockpick investigations, though you can on Sharpshooter attacks -- the Lockpicks give you the typical Lockpick-Rogue base of 8 though, so that's fine) — Thatwasademo · 58
Good catch, on the Mauser + Lockpicks single-use making her an Agility-oriented flex character. She could kill a 4 health enemy by over succeeding on the first Mauser shot, shooting again, then getting a clue on the third action. — VanyelAshke · 181
after all boosts you have how much attack? 5? and this is "good"? most part of fighters have 4-5 on start. If you play with bow, u shoot 1 time and after that what? AOO from enemy? Winny is bad fighter. — Rentgen · 1

Adaptable

Adaptable

The previous reviewers have stated the benefit(s) of this card: providing versatility and the ability to make changes in your deck later in a campaign. A good example someone gave is with Sleight of Hand. Until you spend the xp to get Lupara, you don't need Sleight of Hand yet.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Adaptable also lets you swap out the out-of-faction cards in your deck too!

For example, the Dunwich Legacy cycle investigators (Jenny the Rogue) are allowed up to 5 level 0 cards outside their faction. With Adaptable, you can choose those 5 colors to serve a particular purpose (maybe, make Jenny into a decent clue gatherer with Seeker cards). Then, once you have the xp for the amazing Rogue clue-gathering cards (Lola Santiago, Lockpicks), then you can substitute those Seeker cards for different cards (maybe something to make her more able to handle enemies so she can investigate locations alone).

TLDR: Adaptable lets you swap around level 0 cards, across ALL factions that investigator is permitted to include in their deck. Versatility, from being "Adaptable", can improve efficiency and survivability.

VanyelAshke · 181

Stick to the Plan

Stick to the Plan

If Mandy Thompson is teamed up with a Guardian investigator, would that investigator get to draw 4 cards to put under Stick to the Plan? Edit: I have found out. At the time when you draw your opening hands, you haven’t yet read or set up the scenario so aren’t yet at a location. I think.

Phoenixbadger · 199
I read that question somewhere else and i think the answer was "no cause mandy is not at your location during setup". — Django · 5142
Additionally since FAQ 2.0 abilities that react to searching the deck (and Mandy Thompson's ability is mentioned as an example) do not work during setup. — Killbray · 12322